Interview with Betty Adams Jones, March 9, 2022

MAYFIELD: So, good afternoon. Today is Wednesday, March 9, 2022, and we are in Texas City, Texas at the meeting room in the Nessler Center. This is Theresa Mayfield, the Local History Librarian with Moore Memorial Public Library. I am working on the African American Oral History Project, initiated by Moore Memorial Public Library to aid the African American community in building the historical narrative and to fill in the gap of the historical record. Today, we have the distinct pleasure of interviewing Betty Jones, a long-standing citizen of Texas City. Betty, thank you so much for taking part in our oral history today. So, I'm happy to see you. To start off, I would like to ask if you could introduce yourself, starting with, my name is and I was born in--

JONES: My name is Betty Adams Jones. I was born in Galveston at St. 00:01:00Mary's Hospital in 1948.

MAYFIELD: And so, were you, after you were born, did you just come to Texas City? Were your parents already living here?

JONES: They were already here. They had just moved in that house, December of '47.

MAYFIELD: December '47.

JONES: And I was born the next month, January '48.

MAYFIELD: Okay. And what brought your family to Texas City?

JONES: My grandfathers were getting sick and old and my parents both came here to help take care of our grandfathers. My mother's dad and my father's dad.

MAYFIELD: So, both of your grandparents already lived in Texas City?

JONES: No. Both of them didn't live in Texas City. They eventually came to Texas City. My mother picked up my grandfather in Galveston and brought him back to Texas City to live with us.

MAYFIELD: Alright, so she went and got her dad--

JONES: Right.

MAYFIELD: --and brought him back to Texas City.

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: So, you all were thinking, okay, we want to make, get closer to my grandparents.

JONES: She had to take care of him because all of the sisters had already moved away.

MAYFIELD: Okay

JONES: Yeah.

MAYFIELD: Okay. So, what were your parents' names?

JONES: My mother's name was Irene Harris Adams. And my daddy's name was Wise Adams.

MAYFIELD: Wise Adams, okay. And where was your family originally from?

JONES: My mother was born in Jeanerette, Louisiana, but she was raised in Galveston, Texas.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: So, she came to, --she said she came to Galveston at the age of eight. Or seven or eight years old.

MAYFIELD: A long time then, yeah?

JONES: Yes. Yes.

MAYFIELD: Okay, what about your father?

JONES: My father was from Montgomery, Texas.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: Around Conroe and that area.

MAYFIELD: Okay, okay. And do you have siblings?

JONES: I have two sisters by my, with my dad. My dad had two other girls.

MAYFIELD: Okay. So, you have two stepsisters and two regular sisters, well.

JONES: No, regular sisters.

MAYFIELD: Oh, so, just two--

JONES: --My mother only had me. I'm the only child.

MAYFIELD: Okay. What are your stepsisters' names?

JONES: My oldest sister was Marie Adams, and my other sister was Grace Marie Adams.

MAYFIELD: Okay. And did you all live together?

JONES: My oldest sister's mother passed away when she was like seven, so my mother raised her.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Um, so, can you talk a little bit about your family's economic circumstances?

JONES: We, --I was young, and I don't ever remember ever being hungry or dirty. (laughs) I do know that. But they had to struggle. I remember struggling because my mother was a beautician, and my daddy was a barber. So, we did pretty well, but we had to sacrifice. My mother would sew my dad's underwear because we couldn't buy any more. We would stay in one room to keep the heat, because we couldn't heat the whole house. And my grandfather said he was sick of 00:04:00chicken because if we don't stop eating chicken, we was going to start clucking. So, that's our main diet, was beans and rice and stuff like that.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. Okay. Alright. Um, so, your mother was a beautician, and your father was a barber, they probably heard lots of stories, I would imagine, you know. Everyone likes to talk when they're--

JONES: That's true.

MAYFIELD: --in the chair, right?

JONES: Yeah.

MAYFIELD: So, um, so, your grandfather lived with you?

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: On your mother's side?

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: And what was his name?

JONES: His name was Joseph Harris.

MAYFIELD: Joseph Harris. And what about your other grandfather? Where did he, --you said that you both, --he came to Texas City as well?

JONES: He came to Texas City, but not till later on in life, because he had two other boys. And my dad was adopted by him.

MAYFIELD: Oh, okay.

JONES: Yes. And he finally came and lived with us for a while, until he got sick, and he couldn't. My dad's real father was Marcella Pleasant.

MAYFIELD: Marcella Pleasant.

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: And did he ever meet with his--

JONES: Oh, yeah. He came and lived with us too, at some point.

MAYFIELD: Oh, so you had all three grandfathers--

JONES: Yeah, but at different times.

MAYFIELD: --living with you, in different times.

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: Oh, okay. How was that at different times?

JONES: Well, well my grandfather, my daddy's real grandfather, Marcella Pleasant, and my mother's dad lived there at the same time. But we had that little house and they both shared that little house together. But they didn't get along, (laughs) so he eventually had to move out.

MAYFIELD: Oh, who had to, which one had to move out?

JONES: My daddy's real father--

MAYFIELD: Oh.

JONES: Marcella, because he was a forceful man, and domineering, and my grandfather was meek and quiet. (laughs)

MAYFIELD: So, they didn't get along.

JONES: No, they didn't.

MAYFIELD: Oh no. Okay. And you talk about your grandparents. What about your grandmothers on both sides?

JONES: My grandmother on my mother's side, she lived in San 00:06:00Francisco. She left Galveston, I don't know, but she ended up moving to San Francisco and bought a home there.

MAYFIELD: Okay, okay.

JONES: Yeah, she left. In '59, she bought a house in San Francisco. No, she, yeah, she bought it in 1959.

MAYFIELD: What about your father's mother?

JONES: I, --she got, --I don't know her. I think she passed away when he was young. He had, you know, his step grandmother from the lady that adopted him. I don't know her name, I called her Mama Tuck, but wouldn't know her real name. I didn't know anything else but that.

MAYFIELD: Oh, okay, okay. So, we had a nice discussion before our interview, here and you were showing me different houses. So, what address did you live in growing up in Texas City?

JONES: 930 Second Avenue South.

MAYFIELD: And how long did you live in that house?

JONES: Ooh, I'd say till about seven or eight, and then we moved to 932 Second Avenue South.

MAYFIELD: Right next door--

JONES: --Right next door. Yes.

MAYFIELD: And in that house, we were just talking about it, was you, your two stepsisters?

JONES: No. In the first house, as tiny as it was, my grandfathers stayed there. My stepsisters stayed there. And me, my mom, and dad. Then after we moved into the other house, my sister was gone by then because she's a lot older than me. So, she was gone, and it was just my grandfather, my mom, my dad, and me.

MAYFIELD: And what was the, uh, --did you have our own bedroom in that house?

JONES: I did. And he had, --my grandfather had his own bedroom too.

MAYFIELD: Okay, so, you had three bedrooms in that house?

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: And what was the, --I would say the racial make-up of your community?

JONES: It was totally Black.

MAYFIELD: Totally.

JONES: The whole community. We wasn't allowed to live anywhere across Texas Avenue. So, we was always from, --we was from Tenth all the way to Bay 00:08:00Street. It was our designated area to live.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Okay. So, it seems like you had a very communal community.

JONES: We did.

MAYFIELD: Everyone was very friendly with one another?

JONES: Yes, we all got along.

MAYFIELD: So, what about holidays? Did you do special events with your neighbors?

JONES: No.

MAYFIELD: No?

JONES: No, I don't remember that.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. Okay.

JONES: Because everybody stayed to themselves. Yeah.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. Okay, so what holidays did you celebrate?

JONES: Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthdays, Fourth of July.

MAYFIELD: So, what was the Fourth of July like? What did you guys do?

JONES: Oh, we always barbequing. Because we actually, --at that age, you don't know what you're celebrating. But we knew it was a holiday. Then, as I got older, we started appreciating Juneteenth. Then I got, when I got older, to know what it was. But as first, we didn't know. I didn't.

MAYFIELD: What did you do to celebrate Juneteenth? Anything?

JONES: We'd go to the rec, --to the recreation center. The Sanders Center. And 00:09:00going, we had the swimming pool. And they had, on Friday nights they had a twilight, uh, where you go, everybody goes swimming. And they had a little place where you go and eat hot dogs and just gather around like that. And they would have dances at the recreation center. So, that was our entertainment.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Okay, it sounds like a lot of fun, right?

JONES: It was. We didn't know any better. And then we would go to the movies. I went, --my first movie was to see, --oh my God, what's that movie? It was a horror movie. Oh. The one with the woman in the shower. Do you remember?

MAYFIELD: Oh, uh, yes, when she's in the, --it's that whole shower scene.

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: With the shower curtain.

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: Psycho?

JONES: That's it. Thank you. (Mayfield laughs) I was trying, and I couldn't read his lips. It was Psycho, but we had to go upstairs.

MAYFIELD: Oh, okay.

JONES: Yeah, we had to sit in the balcony.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Well, I was going to ask you about that in a minute. So, we will 00:10:00talk more about that.

JONES: (laughs)

MAYFIELD: What church did you attend?

JONES: Barbour's Chapel Baptist Church.

MAYFIELD: Okay. And what influence did the church have on you?

JONES: That's a real good question. I learned, um, I learned about the Bible because I would go to Sunday school. And I'd pick up how to treat people. And I had, --we had our own little community in there. It was kindness, you know?

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. What about your neighborhood? What was the influence of the church on your neighborhood?

JONES: Everybody went to church. There were like three churches in our block. And you either went to the Methodist Church, First Baptist Church, or Barbour's Chapel Church. And that was the three churches that all of us went to, one of them. Yeah.

MAYFIELD: Which was the biggest church?

JONES: Well, Barbour's Chapel and First Baptist were about the same.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, so, which pastor stands out most in your mind?

JONES: Uh, Reynolds. We had a pastor named Pastor Reynolds, because he had children around our age. So, he would bring entertainment for us. Or he would take us all to the bowling alley, and things like that. And the movies sometimes. But he was the only one that catered to the young, to the younger people.

MAYFIELD: Oh, okay, alright.

kay, alright. Did you like going to church when you were young?

JONES: I did, but I didn't like going all day long.

MAYFIELD: What do you mean by all day long?

JONES: Because we would have Sunday school. They'd have church. Then they'd have a three o'clock service. And then they'd have a BYPU (Ed. Note: Baptist Young Peoples Union).in the evening. I didn't like that.

MAYFIELD: What is a BYPU?

JONES: It was still learning the Bible.

MAYFIELD: Uh-huh.

JONES: Yeah. We'd march in the church and sing. By that time, I was beat.

MAYFIELD: You were done?

JONES: I was done. (laughs)

MAYFIELD: That's the first time I've heard that; --it was that church activities 00:12:00were long on a Sunday.

JONES: They were, and then you had to go turn around and come right back at three o'clock.

MAYFIELD: Oh, my goodness.

JONES: I'm churched, I was churched out.

MAYFIELD: You had time just to go eat lunch or dinner and then go back to church--

JONES: --Yeah, then go back to church.

MAYFIELD: Oh goodness. (laughs)

JONES: So then, people would cook Friday, the night before so when they get off church, they can go home and eat and then go back to church.

MAYFIELD: Oh, my goodness. Okay. Well, that's, that's a first for me. I hadn't heard that one. So, I know that everybody was really involved in the church.

JONES: Mm-hmm.

MAYFIELD: Were there any, you mentioned how, Pastor Reynolds, took the younger kids around.

JONES: Mm-hmm.

MAYFIELD: But were there anything for the teenagers to do in church? Like, did the church have any special programs--

JONES: --Yes. We had children's programs, where they had a, the children's choir, and stuff like that. But I never was the type to participate in a lot of things. I was, --I'm kind of quiet.

MAYFIELD: Oh.

JONES: I would be in; I was in the choir though. But if there was any other 00:13:00activities, I didn't, I didn't participate. I was a homebody.

MAYFIELD: Did your parents want you to be participating--

JONES: --Yes, --definitely, yes, they did.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: Because my father was the communicator and he loved to do political work. And he got us the street curbs because we just had ditches. And he worked with the city commissioner, and we got curbs. But that wasn't me.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. I see. I see. Can you share a little bit about your educational experience?

JONES: I was the first one of the, --I was the first students to go to Texas City High when they integrated in 1964. And it was an experience because we had to be there before anybody else got there so we wouldn't get hurt. Had to be sitting in the classroom. And walking down the hall, we were afraid. And they would heckle us and say things. And it was, it was hard. And a lot of the kids got put out because when they approached them to fight, they would fight back, and then they'd get kicked out of school.

MAYFIELD: Oh, my goodness.

JONES: Yeah. But we made it through.

MAYFIELD: So, can you kind of explain the, or, because you went to, um--

JONES: Booker T.

MAYFIELD: Booker T. Washington first, right? So, can you explain, or talk a little about your experience at Booker T. and then maybe make a comparison between the two?

JONES: Well, we were, --felt safe at Booker T. Washington. (Ed. Note: Booker T. Washington School, located south of Texas Avenue in the "Rectangle"). And the teachers worked with us and cared about us. But we didn't have the equipment. My parents decided we needed to integrate because we got the books that they didn't want. So, that's why my parents decided, "Well, you got to go over to the other school so you can get the good education." But as far as the teachers and everybody, they cared. And it was safe.

MAYFIELD: At Booker T.?

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: And how long did you go to Booker T.?

JONES: From first grade to tenth grade. And I went to tenth grade is when they opened up Texas City High was from ten through twelve.

MAYFIELD: Ten through twelve. Okay.

JONES: Oh, what year was Kennedy assassinated? Was it '63?

MAYFIELD: Uh.

JONES: Because I think that was the year. I was sitting in English class in '63 and that, when he was assassinated. And I can remember that day. I will never forget.

MAYFIELD: You were in the, you were in Texas City High School when that happened?

JONES: Yeah, I was in Texas City, yes. I think I went in '63. Yeah.

MAYFIELD: Um, so, how far was Booker T. Washington from your home?

JONES: I could walk. I used to walk to school and come home for lunch and go back.

MAYFIELD: Same thing with Texas City High School?

JONES: Oh, no, no. My parents had to take me to school.

MAYFIELD: So, did you take a car? Did you walk?

JONES: My dad took me to school and picked me up.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Okay.

JONES: Yeah. Or my mom. One of the two did. I don't ever, I don't know if we had a school bus. We might have. But I don't remember riding it.

MAYFIELD: Okay, so, your dad picked you up and brought you home every single day?

JONES: Right, every single day.

MAYFIELD: Okay. So, before you went to Texas City High School, we'll go back to Booker T. first because we have a good comparison here. What did you do after 00:16:00school? What kinds of things did you do after school when you were at Booker T. Washington?

JONES: I had a little, --I had some girlfriends and I had little guy friends. And we had little parties at my house. We'd play our music, that was in the early sixties. And we had good music. And we had little dances and stuff at my mother's house. And my girlfriends, we had a phone. We'd talk on the phone a lot, because their parents were strict like my mother was strict. So, we just, --I had two friends that I could go to their house, and they could go to my house.

MAYFIELD: Okay, I understand that. (Jones laughs) Um, what about, uh, any kinds of after school sports. Were you involved in any after school activities?

JONES: No. (laughs)

MAYFIELD: No?

JONES: No.

MAYFIELD: No. What about when you went to Texas City High School?

JONES: I joined the, uh, there was a, --it was like a pep squad. I did do that. Yes. And me and my little friends got together at Booker T. and had a little club going. And so, when we would have parades or something in our 00:17:00little community, we would come out in our little, our little group in our colors. Or we would have a dance at the rec and give dances and do that.

MAYFIELD: So, you were involved in the community in your own way.

JONES: Yeah, we did that.

MAYFIELD: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, so, at Booker T. Washington, was there any teacher that, um, was, you know, a good, an influence on you that you can still remember that every time you think about that teacher, you know, there's--

JONES: --I had a teacher that I liked, Dr., uh, Mr. Bonner. He was a good teacher. He was like a history teacher. Yeah, yeah, I think. He was history, but I liked him. Out of all of them, he was the best.

MAYFIELD: So, why did you, um, like him the most?

JONES: I liked his personality.

MAYFIELD: Oh, he--

JONES: The teachers back then were strict. Like, you know, --but they were good. They weren't wrong. But he had a kind spirit to me.

MAYFIELD: What about when you went to Texas City High School?

JONES: I don't even remember any of those teachers.

MAYFIELD: Oh, okay.

JONES: I don't. Because none of them reached out, you know? None of them. But I did join the Machine Club, because back in the day, we didn't have computers. So, we had office machines, and they had a club where you learned how to use adding machines. And I joined that club. And I even got a chance to go to Houston with that class to, to see Dr. Zhivago. And they took us out to a steak dinner, which I had never had a steak. And the waiter, the white tablecloths, ---and the waiter stood behind us, and served us. It was, it was amazing.

MAYFIELD: It was a memorable event, yeah?

JONES: I will never forget that.

MAYFIELD: Yeah?

JONES: Seeing the, a cinema screen of Dr. Zhivago, I never would have been able, --we probably would never have been able to go in there if I wasn't with the school.

MAYFIELD: So, the Machine Club got to see Dr. Zhivago, and you were a part of 00:19:00the Machine Club. Why did they, --did they win a contest? I mean, why did they end up--

JONES: I don't know how we got there. But that whole class got a chance to go. And I don't know how many, I don't think there was too many Black people in that class.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Okay. So, after high school, um, what were your aspirations? Did you want to go to college? Did you--

JONES: I didn't. I did not. But my mother made me. But I didn't want to go in Texas. I had to leave Texas, though. My aunt lived in Portland, Oregon. So, my parents sent me to Portland. And when I go there, my mother said I couldn't live with my aunt, I had to live in a dorm. But that was a problem. Being Black, they didn't want me. So, they punished me. It was actually a blessing. You had to have roommates, but I was lucky enough to have a private room because they didn't want me to room with anybody else. So, I had my own private bath and my own private room. And I got a discount. But eventually, when I got there, I 00:20:00was the only Black person in the whole dorm. I was afraid to death. But I met some really amazing people, and they all got to be my friends. And then they decided to raise, --to put me in a room with someone else. And my friends rallied behind me and said, "No, you're not doing her that. You didn't give her a room in the first place, no, she's going to keep her room." And they fought for me.

MAYFIELD: So, you mean, it's got to be brave to go to a school, and you know, you said you were the only Black person there.

JONES: Yes. I was.

MAYFIELD: But then you made amazing friends who rallied behind you.

JONES: Yeah, I did.

MAYFIELD: I mean--

JONES: --It was so nice, because the friends I met, they had never, some of them had never been around Black people in their life, because they were from like, Montana (laughs).

MAYFIELD: Oh.

JONES: Places like that. And so, we all had, --got a chance to know each other.

MAYFIELD: So, how did you find that experience, overall?

JONES: I needed that. Because the world is, is--, everybody's here. I needed that. I needed to get out of this bubble.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: And see something a little bit different?

JONES: Definitely. And my first job was McCann Erickson, it was an ad agency. And I met a white girl there and we're still friends today, after fifty-five years. And she, --the whole family brought me in as family. And I, I learned a lot.

MAYFIELD: What was here name?

JONES: Merla Turner.

MAYFIELD: Merla Turner.

JONES: Mm-hmm.

MAYFIELD: Thank you, Merla Turner, right?

JONES: Yes. We still talk. (laughs)

MAYFIELD: Um, so, you went to high school, how did you end up back in Texas City?

JONES: That's a long story. Okay. I met my husband in Portland. And we got, --he came down and we got married. I came back home. And we got married. And then we broke up. Yeah. So, I ended up coming back to my mom's house to raise my kids, because I couldn't do it alone.

MAYFIELD: Right. Right. Right. Okay--

JONES: --Yeah. So, that's how I ended up back home.

MAYFIELD: So, what did you do for a living, then?

JONES: I came here and got a job with Southwestern Bell.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: And I retired from there.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. How long did you work there?

JONES: Twenty-five years.

MAYFIELD: That's a long time.

JONES: Yeah.

MAYFIELD: How did you like working there?

JONES: It was a living. That's all.

MAYFIELD: Oh, okay.

JONES: It was a means. It had good benefits and it paid pretty good. So, I can't complain though.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: I'm living off the (laughs) profits of it, yes--

MAYFIELD: --Okay. Um, so, back in Texas City, who were your best friends growing up?

JONES: It was Alice Faye Cleveland. She's just, she's passed away. Gloria House, which I talked to her yesterday. Yes, and she lived in Las Vegas, Nevada now. And that's, all the rest of them are gone. All my friends have passed away.

MAYFIELD: Oh, okay.

JONES: Yeah.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Um, when you were all together, you were mentioning, were they with you when you were doing your dance parties and--

JONES: Yes, they were there. I had a few other friends there. But like I said, they've all passed away.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Mm-hmm.

JONES: Or moved away, and I haven't heard from them. In high school, sometimes 00:23:00people move away, and you don't see them ever again. And I have friends like that, too.

MAYFIELD: So, how many friends stayed in Texas City that were close with you? Um, or were most of--

JONES: --How many close friends I had?

MAYFIELD: Yeah.

JONES: I had, Alice Faye, Gloria Jean, it's not very many? (laughs) That's not very many. Because, I mean, grade school, I had a few, Sally Mae and all of those. And Dolly Belle in high school. But it's just, it's so, --it's quite a few.

MAYFIELD: Did you make any friends while you were at Texas City High School?

JONES: No. Mm-mm.

MAYFIELD: No?

JONES: No. No. We stayed in our little clutter. We had to. Yeah--

MAYFIELD: --Mm-hmm. Okay. What do you mean you had to?

JONES: Nobody wanted, --they don't want us there. So, wasn't nobody overly--. The only person that was nice to me at Texas City High is a girl in gym. But she was from, she was from Italy. And she was a foreign exchange student. And I was 00:24:00sick and couldn't play, and nobody said anything. So, she was the only one who came up to me and said, "Are you okay?" You know, but she wasn't from here, so she didn't know the dynamics. And they looked at her like, get away from there. (laughs)

MAYFIELD: Oh, I'm sorry.

JONES: Ah, I survived. (laughs) It makes you strong.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. So, on the weekends, you said you would go to the rec center for dances.

JONES: Yeah, but my parents didn't let me go there every weekend.

MAYFIELD: What did you do for fun on the weekends?

JONES: Stay home and watch TV.

MAYFIELD: Stay home and watch TV, okay, okay. (Jones laughs)

JONES: I was sheltered.

MAYFIELD: Yeah. (Mayfield, Jones laugh) And you said you went to the movie theaters every now and, well--

JONES: Every now and then. I went to more than one time, yeah. Because they had the Disney's movies out at that time, and I could go see a Disney movie or something.

MAYFIELD: Ok--

JONES: --With Hayley Mills and, back in the day.

MAYFIELD: Oh, I remember those.

JONES: You remember those?

MAYFIELD: Yes.

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: How much was the movie ticket?

JONES: Now the one I went to in Houston, listen, I don't remember Texas City, but I remember paying twenty-five cents.

MAYFIELD: Twenty-five cents?

JONES: For two movies and a cartoon.

MAYFIELD: What about--. Weren't there some drive-ins in Texas City?

JONES: We went to the drive-ins, too. We went to Tradewinds Drive-In and the Bayou Drive-In.

MAYFIELD: And the Bayou. How much were those tickets?

JONES: Well, when I got older and married, like in the seventies, like you go on a Monday night, you could go a dollar a carload.

MAYFIELD: Okay, alright. Um, were there any places that you can remember in the community that were considered, I guess, trouble spots?

JONES: Hmm. No, because I didn't go anywhere. But I'm sure there were. Because we didn't go to white restaurants. We'd go to our own restaurants.

MAYFIELD: What kind of restaurants? Do you remember the names?

JONES: The little places and greasy spoons. And some of them were, you know, what they could afford, and they have good meals. And we--. My daddy's barber 00:26:00shop, at first, was right on the corner now of Sixth street. The little building is still there. The first one. And then next to him was a man, Mr. Craddock and he had a little hamburger stand and he would sell hamburgers.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, let me see. We were talking about a Cleveland's Barbeque.

JONES: We had Cleveland's Barbeque. Yes. And we could go in there and sit down.

MAYFIELD: Oh, you could go in and sit down.

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: Where was that located?

JONES: Oh, that street, it was down Texas Avenue. Now, I know, I can see it, but I don't know the name. Do you know the, um, Tony's, um, Pawnshop? It's on that street where Tony's Pawnshop was on the corner.

MAYFIELD: Okay, Tony's Pawnshop.

JONES: Down the street, there. That's the street.

MAYFIELD: Okay, on that street, but not on Texas Avenue, but down that street?

JONES: Yeah, down that street.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Okay. So, you were mentioning that your father used to drive you 00:27:00to school. So, what type of car did your parents drive?

JONES: All kinds. They had, --later on they got them an Oldsmobile. A real long '88 Oldsmobile.

MAYFIELD: What was the first car that they had?

JONES: A '49 Mercury.

MAYFIELD: A '49 Mercury?

JONES: Mm-hmm.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. And who drove that car?

JONES: My dad and my mother learned how to drive it. It was a stick shift, but she learned.

MAYFIELD: Okay. And, um, who taught you how to drive?

JONES: My dad.

MAYFIELD: Yeah?

JONES: Mm-hmm.

MAYFIELD: Did you ever have any problems driving? I had, like, you know, where did you ever get into an accident with your dad's car or anything?

JONES: No.

MAYFIELD: No?

JONES: Thank God, no.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm.

JONES: No.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Uh, well, one of our conversations, you know, they lost driving privileges, you know?

JONES: Really? No. (laughs)

MAYFIELD: So, who repaired the car when the car broke down?

JONES: I guess we had a shade-tree mechanic.

MAYFIELD: What's that mean?

JONES: (laughs) That's a person in your neighborhood who's not really licensed, 00:28:00but they work on cars, --back the day, you know. That's all, I guess.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Okay. Um, so, where did you get your news from? Uh, did you guys have a radio or television?

JONES: At first, I remember when little, we just had a radio.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: And the only thing I can remember is a talk show, uh, a show was like Lorenzo Jones, where they was talking. You know, a program. Then, eventually, we got a TV in like, '52. But we didn't get that many channels, but we had a TV.

MAYFIELD: But you had a TV. Um. And is, uh, where did you get your local news from, that you remember?

JONES: The TV.

MAYFIELD: The TV?

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: Okay. And so, what kind of programs did you watch on television?

JONES: The Lone Ranger. (laughs) And that's the only one I can remember.

MAYFIELD: Hmm, mmm. Okay.

JONES: And the Disney stuff when they came out later. Mickey Mouse and all of that.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. Okay. So, in your neighborhood, did you leave your doors unlocked?

JONES: Mm-hmm.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: We slept with the door open because it was hot, and we didn't have air-conditioning. So, we slept with the front door open. And I'd lay, --I made me a pallet in the door and sleep in the door.

MAYFIELD: Oh, okay. That's very safe, right? Yeah.

JONES: (laughs) Well now.

MAYFIELD: Yeah, now, sometimes, yep. What about disasters? Do you recall any disasters growing up?

JONES: Hurricane Carla.

MAYFIELD: How was that?

JONES: We left town. And we were gone for like three weeks. And we stayed with my uncle in Houston.

MAYFIELD: Did it affect your home in any way?

JONES: We were blessed. No, we did not. And my mom left a cat; she was fine; we left enough food and she, she was fine.

MAYFIELD: So, you guys left right before Hurricane Carla hit?

JONES: Mm-hmm.

MAYFIELD: Yeah? Okay.

JONES: But I remember other people who didn't have a way to get out, I think a 00:30:00bus took them and they went to the Coliseum. And they stayed in the parking lot--

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: --of the Coliseum.

MAYFIELD: Okay. So, did Hurricane Carla affect your neighborhood at all?

JONES: I don't remember it affecting our neighborhood.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: I don't think so.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Um, so, you said, other than having to go away for three weeks, was that the only impact that Carla had on you, on your family?

JONES: Yes, that's when my father was living, yes. After that, we had other little disasters too, but--

MAYFIELD: Like what?

JONES: An explosion at one time. A little explosion, and we had to go and stay at the Holiday Inn.

MAYFIELD: Okay. The Holiday Inn in Texas City?

JONES: Mm-hmm. No. Where were we? Not the one on the Bay Street. I don't know where, I don't know which one, --where we were, but we was in a hotel here.

MAYFIELD: Okay, but that was before, that was after 1970 that there was an explosion?

JONES: Well, no, no. That was in the, it had to be in the seventies. You're right.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: Because my children were born.

MAYFIELD: Your children were born. Okay. Okay.

JONES: The seventies.

MAYFIELD: Um, so when you were younger and someone was ill or injured, did you go to a doctor?

JONES: I did.

MAYFIELD: And, um--

JONES: -- I was in the hospital at four.

MAYFIELD: Why?

JONES: I went to Mainland Center Hospital. We had a doctor, I told you before, Dr. Twidwell. And he would make house calls. So, he would come to the house. He checked me. He came to everybody. Everybody in our community knew him because he would come to our community and and help us.

MAYFIELD: Okay, Dr. Twidwell. Um, and where was he located? His, his place of residence? Or--

JONES: Yeah, he wasn't that far. He was, well, later on, he was over by Food King. He had a house on one of those streets. Which street is that? Okay, there's Ninth Avenue and the next street over would be Eighth, right?

MAYFIELD: Ninth, if you're going south.

JONES: It's going toward the dike. That, that street there.

MAYFIELD: Okay. And that was his house and office?

JONES: Well, his office, yeah, the office was inside his house. I can remember going there. But not to get, it seems like I don't get treated, I went there to get medicine.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: But to say treatment, I don't remember getting treated at his house.

MAYFIELD: Did he ever come to your house?

JONES: He came. Yeah. He would always come to our house, with this little black bag. (Gestures carrying a bag and laughs.)

MAYFIELD: It's like the old-fashioned doctor, with the black bag.

JONES: Yes, he was, yes.

MAYFIELD: Uh, so, um, you said you had to go to the hospital?

JONES: Mm-hmm.

MAYFIELD: How did you get there when you were young?

JONES: I'm sure my father took me. Yeah --

MAYFIELD: -- Okay. Where did you and your family shop, growing up?

JONES: Wieners.

MAYFIELD: Wieners?

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: And what did Wieners sell? What kind of things?

JONES: Apparel.

MAYFIELD: Apparel?

JONES: And JC Penny's. That was our store too.

MAYFIELD: And JC Penny's?

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: What about food? Where did you go to shopping for food?

JONES: Big Chief.

MAYFIELD: Big Chief?

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: And Pic-N-Pac because that was on the corner of my house on Texas Avenue. Corner of Tenth and Texas Avenue was called Pic-N-Pac.

MAYFIELD: Pic-N-Pac? And where--

JONES: --And I'd walk there.

MAYFIELD: Where was Big Chief located?

JONES: Uh, let's see here. You know, what's across the street? Big Chief, it's on--. Okay, you know where Agee's, old Agee's?

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm.

JONES: It was behind the Agee's.

MAYFIELD: Okay. I know exactly where you're talking about.

JONES: Yeah. That building there.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. Uh, so, how welcome did you feel when you went shopping? Did you ever feel unwelcomed, or?

JONES: No. Well, I didn't pay any attention.

MAYFIELD: You didn't pay any attention?

JONES: No.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Were there places that you would have wanted to shop?

JONES: Not really because I, we didn't have any money. So, we (laughs) you know, so it wasn't, --we didn't know to go anywhere else.

MAYFIELD: Oh, okay. Okay. Um, so, you were mentioning that you ate beans and 00:34:00rice and chicken, right?

JONES: Mm-hmm.

MAYFIELD: Were there, um, any special meals that your family prepared for holidays or special events?

JONES: We had the turkey and dressing and ham, the regular things. Yeah.

MAYFIELD: And did your family eat meals together? Or how was dinner time?

JONES: We did. Well, not my father because he worked nights. Because he was in the barber shop, he might not get home till eight because he ran over. So, me and my mom and grandfather, we ate together.

MAYFIELD: And what kind of things did you guys talk about around the dinner table?

JONES: Politics. Yeah. My daddy talked a lot of politics. And what was going on in the city, and who got shot and who did us what. (laughs)

MAYFIELD: Oh, so he was like, in the know, your dad.

JONES: Yeah, he was in the know. And he was in the NAACP. And he was in the Masonic club and different things.

MAYFIELD: Well, that kind of leads us into, um, the civil rights time frame. Um, so, what was it like being African American in Texas City during the civil 00:35:00rights movement?

JONES: What years are we talking about? Like?

MAYFIELD: I mean, I would say--

JONES: We would watch it on the TV, all the terrible things that were going on.

MAYFIELD: But what was it like in Texas City, like, as far as the civil rights going on in, in Texas City?

JONES: See, like I say, we, they didn't--. People back then didn't tell their kids stuff. They, they didn't put, --tell us what was really going on. And we didn't know because, we wasn't around, at that time, white people. So.

MAYFIELD: So, you didn't hear too much of what was happening.

JONES: No, they didn't, --they kept it from us.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Um, do you remember hearing talk when they were about to integrate schools?

JONES: Yes. I do know that. They talked a lot--

MAYFIELD: --Can you talk a little bit to that?

JONES: Yeah, he was--. My dad wanted me to be progressive because he knew the world was going to be progressive. And I was going to have to get a job, with somebody, so I needed to be open-minded. So, he said I needed to go for the 00:36:00education. And he was right.

MAYFIELD: So, they were talking. Did you ever hear your parents talking about, like, you know, making that decision? If it was hard for them or was it just clear-cut that you were going and that, was it?

JONES: It was clear-cut that I was going.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Um, so, when you found out that you were going to go to Texas City High School, what did you think?

JONES: I was afraid, but I was ready. I was ready to go.

MAYFIELD: You were ready to go?

JONES: Mm-hmm.

MAYFIELD: What about your friends? Did some of them--

JONES: All my friends went with me.

MAYFIELD: All your friends went with you? Oh.

JONES: Yeah, we were all on the same page, so it was easy.

MAYFIELD: It was easy? Oh, okay.

JONES: Yeah, there was a few people that stayed and didn't go that first year. They didn't have to. It was a choice. Although, all the ones that decided to go, we all failed that year in school.

MAYFIELD: Interesting.

JONES: Yes. (laughs) We did.

MAYFIELD: All classes?

JONES: I don't know all classes; I know that our class did.

MAYFIELD: So, did you have to stay behind--

JONES: -- I went. No, my dad took me to Galveston to summer school.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: Me and my friends, we all went to summer school. I had some friends who even went to Houston to summer school.

MAYFIELD: So, did you have to make up all of your classes, or just some?

JONES: No. Just English.

MAYFIELD: Oh, just English. That's interesting.

JONES: I know.

MAYFIELD: All of you failed English class?

JONES: That was going to Texas City High. They didn't want us to leave because of the money. You know, they were going to close their school, so I understood, at the time. I didn't, but now I, I look back and I, they did what they had to do. I understand that.

MAYFIELD: What do you mean they? Who, who, what?

JONES: Well, whoever was over there, you know, the principal and people, they would lose their jobs. So, they wanted us not to go.

MAYFIELD: Oh. So, wait. So, you, so the first year that you went to Texas City High School, everybody failed English?

JONES: Well, in my class. I don't know--

MAYFIELD: In your class.

JONES: Yes, I don't--

MAYFIELD: That first year.

JONES: Yeah.

MAYFIELD: But you were, --the teachers that were at Booker T. Washington were 00:38:00worried because that--

JONES: I don't know if it was the teachers or if it was the administration or what. But that, that's what happened to us.

MAYFIELD: So, you guys ended up having to take summer school, all of you, for English.

JONES: Mm-hmm. Right.

MAYFIELD: That's a very--

JONES: --Some went for other courses, too, I'm sure. Yeah, but I don't know them, so--

MAYFIELD: But that was particular in your head because so many students?

JONES: Right.

MAYFIELD: Interesting. Um, so, do you remember any sort of controversies that had come out. I mean, in the community. I know that you were, --I mean, when you were in high school. Were there any controversies, like any sit-ins, or anything like that?

JONES: No. No.

MAYFIELD: That you remember?

JONES: No.

MAYFIELD: No? Okay.

JONES: I remember we couldn't go and sit in the Agee's Drug Store. We couldn't eat there. We couldn't sit at the counter at Weingarten's store, either. Which is Food King now.

MAYFIELD: Which is Food King, okay. Were there any sit-ins in either of those places?

JONES: I don't remember. I don't know of any.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Okay. Um--

JONES: I remember when Barbara Jordan came to Texas City.

MAYFIELD: Who is Barbara Jordan? [Ed. Note: First African American elected to the Texas Senate after Reconstruction and the first Southern African American woman elected to the United States House of Representatives].

JONES: She was the lady, oh, she was really popular. She was a Congress lady or something back in the day. She became a Congress lady. You'll hear about her. And she came. And my daddy worked for her at the Sanders Center.

MAYFIELD: Okay, and what kind of things did she bring to Texas City or try to do for Texas City that you remember?

JONES: I don't know.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Barbara Jordan?

JONES: Jordan. Yeah.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Okay. Um, what about voting? How old were you when you voted?

JONES: Eighteen.

MAYFIELD: You were eighteen. Were you excited to vote?

JONES: Mm-hmm.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. Um, did you have to prepare how you were going to vote? Or, no? You just went, and--

JONES: Well, somebody was there to help me.

MAYFIELD: Oh, okay.

JONES: Yeah. And I knew who I wanted to vote for.

MAYFIELD: And you knew who you wanted to vote, of course, yes. Mm-hmm. Um, so, we were talking, and you mentioned that your father signed up folks in the back of his barber shop for the poll tax--

JONES: --The poll tax, yes.

MAYFIELD: Can you talk a little bit about that?

JONES: He had a tiny little room and all I can remember is people coming there and signed up. I think they had to pay for it. I'm not sure, but I think they had to pay for that, to do a poll tax so they could vote.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. So, did your father, um, I guess, you know, try to convince more folks to vote? Did everybody need to be convinced to vote?

JONES: He did try, yes, yes. People, because some people didn't understand. Just like today, some people need to be convinced to vote. (laughs)

MAYFIELD: Yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah. Um, and you mentioned something about your father putting in curbs in your neighborhood.

JONES: Yeah.

MAYFIELD: Where did he have those curbs put in?

JONES: The front of the house and around the house. All the curbs because they were all ditches. And he worked--

MAYFIELD: --In the whole neighborhood, or just in front of your house?

JONES: The whole street. No. The whole neighborhood.

MAYFIELD: The whole neighborhood?

JONES: Yes, because he worked with the city and the commissioners, and they worked on that. Now, I don't know if he was with the NAACP doing that or with any other organizations on a committee. I'm not going to say he did all that by himself.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: Yeah.

MAYFIELD: He worked with some folks, right?

JONES: Yes, definitely.

MAYFIELD: Um, who were the more important leaders in your community that you remember?

JONES: Mr. Robinson. He was, I think at one time, he was the president of the NAACP.

MAYFIELD: And--

JONES: Our pastor. And that's about it, I remember.

MAYFIELD: Do you remember Mr. Henderson?

JONES: Oh, yes, because his son, --I was looking at the pictures today when we were in kindergarten. Yes.

MAYFIELD: His son was in kindergarten with you?

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: What was his name?

JONES: We were four years old. Edward Henderson.

MAYFIELD: Edward Henderson. Okay. Do you know, sort of, what role women played 00:42:00in the civil rights movement in Texas City?

JONES: No, I don't.

MAYFIELD: Okay. What about churches?

JONES: There were a lot of women involved in a lot of things and churches. But like I said, I didn't, I didn't know that.

MAYFIELD: You didn't know that.

JONES: I wouldn't know that no.

MAYFIELD: Okay, okay. Were you in the NAACP?

JONES: Yes, I was.

MAYFIELD: Mm-hmm. And when did you join the NACCP?

JONES: I don't know. But that was a given. I had to be in it.

MAYFIELD: You had to join?

JONES: And I wanted to.

MAYFIELD: And you wanted to?

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: What kind of work did you do when you were with the NAACP?

JONES: I was just a member. I didn't do anything, but I remember being a member.

MAYFIELD: You remember being a member.

JONES: We had a little card, too.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Uh, so, in the community, what groups did you belong to? Um, were there other, like your dad, you say how your dad was a part of the Masonic Lodge.

JONES: Right.

MAYFIELD: But were you in any other groups?

JONES: I was in the, I don't know how to spell it. I was in the Herons, the 00:43:00Heroines (Ed. Note: The Heroines of Jericho).

MAYFIELD: The Heroines. What is the Heroines?

JONES: It's, it's so, it's like the Heroines and Eastern Star. It's affiliated with the church.

MAYFIELD: It's affiliated. So, what kind of things did the Heroines subscribe to?

JONES: They had different rituals to, about life. It's still church. Yeah.

MAYFIELD: Okay. What made you decide to join them?

JONES: My mother, she insisted.

MAYFIELD: She insisted.

JONES: Yes, she, yes. She was in it, so she wanted me to do it.

MAYFIELD: How old were you when you joined that?

JONES: I had to be a teenager.

MAYFIELD: You were a teenager?

JONES: Yeah, not quite a teenager. Yes.

MAYFIELD: Okay. And how many years were you in that organization?

JONES: Well, I guess, until I finished high school.

MAYFIELD: Until you finished high school?

JONES: Yeah. And they still probably have it today, but

MAYFIELD: The Heroines?

JONES: Because it's affiliated with the church, and I'm not going to a certain church now.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Okay. Um, so, do you know where you were when Martin Luther King 00:44:00was killed?

JONES: I do. I was in Portland, Oregon and going, --in college at the time.

MAYFIELD: What were you thinking at that time?

JONES: I was sad. I was thinking about poor people down in the South because I wasn't, it was racist there, but it was a different kind of racism.

MAYFIELD: You mean up in Portland, Oregon?

JONES: Yes.

MAYFIELD: What does that mean when you mean a different kind of racism?

JONES: It's subtle. It's not blatant like it is in the South. It was very subtle.

MAYFIELD: Okay, I see. Did you, --so you figure, it was still there, not like, did you find it, even though it was subtle, it was less up there, or just subtle?

JONES: Just subtle.

MAYFIELD: Just subtle. Okay. Wow. Um, we are at the end of our oral history.

JONES: Oh, fantastic--

MAYFIELD: -- But before we finish, is there anything else that you would like to share on anything that we haven't touched upon that you wanted to make sure that 00:45:00we talk about?

JONES: Well, I think we did it.

MAYFIELD: Okay.

JONES: I'm sorry. I mean it was, it was a good experience with my life though.

MAYFIELD: Yeah?

JONES: I cannot complain.

MAYFIELD: Okay. Alright. Wonderful. Well, this concludes our interview with Miss Betty. Thank you so much for sharing your stories and being a part of the Moore Memorial Public Library African American Oral History Project.

JONES: Thank you so much.

MAYFIELD: Thank you.